Posted Aug 17, 2007 at 01:53PM by Enrico S.
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Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2
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Yann Le Tensorer
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Ubisoft International Brand Manager Adrian Lacey cited God of War as a prime example of fine development. He said, " If you take the PS2 for example, when God of War come out people saw it was tremendous. But it wasn't until the end of the PS2 cycle that we've seen the machine being pushed to its fullest." The future looks bright for the PS3 as long as developers keep that mindset and persevere to learn the ins-and-outs of the next -gen consoles. Hopefully, we'll be seeing better games in the future. |
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[Via GamesIndustry.biz]
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29 Comments
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by NightVortez (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» big shocker there..
The dev tools for the PS3 are much easier to develop for then the PS2, developers just seem to like to spend more time with the 360 because they have learned everything about it and they don't want a challenge of learning something new.
The dev tools for the PS3 are much easier to develop for then the PS2, developers just seem to like to spend more time with the 360 because they have learned everything about it and they don't want a challenge of learning something new.
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Re: Zomg (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» ...
It's nice to hear the real story about the difficulty of developing for the PS3 from industry experts rather than conceited morons who have absolutely no knowledge of how to program a computer and who are too busy spouting nonsense to actually realize how stupid they sound (i.e. MCS).
However, I doubt MCS will even read this, as he tends to avoid articles that he can't twist to portray the PS3 in a bad light. At least I have a bookmark as a source next time he starts up with his "hard to program" BS.
It's nice to hear the real story about the difficulty of developing for the PS3 from industry experts rather than conceited morons who have absolutely no knowledge of how to program a computer and who are too busy spouting nonsense to actually realize how stupid they sound (i.e. MCS).
However, I doubt MCS will even read this, as he tends to avoid articles that he can't twist to portray the PS3 in a bad light. At least I have a bookmark as a source next time he starts up with his "hard to program" BS.
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by What common sense is really about (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» ...
This is the thing we've tried to tell people like MCS and Axo, but they still can't acknowledge the fact, that the PS3 has only been out for almost a year while the xbox 360 has been out for almost 2 years.
This is the thing we've tried to tell people like MCS and Axo, but they still can't acknowledge the fact, that the PS3 has only been out for almost a year while the xbox 360 has been out for almost 2 years.
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Re: dopey (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» MCS and Axo
you guys give them too much attention.
That exactly what they want.
Otherwise they would be on their Xbox Articles defending their own consoles from ps3 fanboys who also want attention.
you guys give them too much attention.
That exactly what they want.
Otherwise they would be on their Xbox Articles defending their own consoles from ps3 fanboys who also want attention.
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Re: adhead (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» cheap marketing tactics
I really think these 2 guys are sort of low budget students (or something like that) who work for one of the many web-advertising companies... well it could be even only one guy actually. they post sh.it here and there (maybe on other sites too) purely for money. Why would anyone be so furious about a piece of plastic and silicone otherwise...
did you guys read about the recent research which showed that the most visited blogs have stronger effect on people's opinion than news sites? it's way much cheaper to pay a few guys trolling and bashing the competition in the 'comments' (the media is for free) than running a real campaign that runs on highly priced media surfaces.
I really think these 2 guys are sort of low budget students (or something like that) who work for one of the many web-advertising companies... well it could be even only one guy actually. they post sh.it here and there (maybe on other sites too) purely for money. Why would anyone be so furious about a piece of plastic and silicone otherwise...
did you guys read about the recent research which showed that the most visited blogs have stronger effect on people's opinion than news sites? it's way much cheaper to pay a few guys trolling and bashing the competition in the 'comments' (the media is for free) than running a real campaign that runs on highly priced media surfaces.
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Re: Stealth! - 2007-08-18 |
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» LOL
Wow finally some real facts not like the pro xbox losers and there PS3 bashing, and you know who im talking about.
Also if MCs and Axo was on neoseeker.com they would have been banned for trolling and starting major flames and console wars fights.
Wow finally some real facts not like the pro xbox losers and there PS3 bashing, and you know who im talking about.
Also if MCs and Axo was on neoseeker.com they would have been banned for trolling and starting major flames and console wars fights.
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by nufffsaid (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» Thank you
The posts statement is exactly what I have been saying for awhile now, bring on GOW 3. Ill be getting Graw 2 as soon as its out, if any1 wants to join me please leave your tag and ill add it to my friends list, Ill be hosting a lot of the time. I love the GR series.
The posts statement is exactly what I have been saying for awhile now, bring on GOW 3. Ill be getting Graw 2 as soon as its out, if any1 wants to join me please leave your tag and ill add it to my friends list, Ill be hosting a lot of the time. I love the GR series.
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by phalanges - 2007-08-17 |
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» If your lazy....
of course you're going to think the system is hard to develop for. If you spend the time and energy to learn the system, it becomes easier.
of course you're going to think the system is hard to develop for. If you spend the time and energy to learn the system, it becomes easier.
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Re: lansingone - 2007-08-17 |
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» too bad
not all devs think this, if only they did then we would have less half ass ports
not all devs think this, if only they did then we would have less half ass ports
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Re: Stealth! - 2007-08-18 |
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» Also
If they actually study and understand the PS3, it wold have killer games abe selling like hotcakes.
If they actually study and understand the PS3, it wold have killer games abe selling like hotcakes.
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Re: Stealth! - 2007-08-18 |
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» Oops typo
"would" and "and, be"
"would" and "and, be"
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by EngineerLackey (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» In other words, it's a console
I think 360's perceived ease comes mostly from the fact that its SDK is highly derivative of / cooperative with the usual tools for Windows game development (Visual Studio, DirectX, etc.). In short, it's more about familiarity than anything else. People who cut their teeth on Windows game programming will naturally find 360 easier and PS3 harder, because 360 largely uses tools and APIs that they already know. People whose experience comes mostly from e.g. embedded Linux could very well find the PS3 approach more comfortable.
More than that, though, I think what it comes down to is "old-school" vs. "new-school" expectations - in the old days of consoles (before the "32-bit" era), you got a technical manual, an assembler, a RAM cartridge, and some sample code, and you were expected to get the job done with that. Nowadays, many people expect to be able to support multiple consoles with a common code base, prototype code on their PCs and then move it over to the target with relatively minimal fuss, and have people with no real knowledge of the console work on code that isn't performance-critical. Paradoxically, it's Sony themselves who largely ushered in this "new-school" mindset with the PS1 SDK, and now they're seen as "too hard" because Microsoft has pushed it even farther...
I think 360's perceived ease comes mostly from the fact that its SDK is highly derivative of / cooperative with the usual tools for Windows game development (Visual Studio, DirectX, etc.). In short, it's more about familiarity than anything else. People who cut their teeth on Windows game programming will naturally find 360 easier and PS3 harder, because 360 largely uses tools and APIs that they already know. People whose experience comes mostly from e.g. embedded Linux could very well find the PS3 approach more comfortable.
More than that, though, I think what it comes down to is "old-school" vs. "new-school" expectations - in the old days of consoles (before the "32-bit" era), you got a technical manual, an assembler, a RAM cartridge, and some sample code, and you were expected to get the job done with that. Nowadays, many people expect to be able to support multiple consoles with a common code base, prototype code on their PCs and then move it over to the target with relatively minimal fuss, and have people with no real knowledge of the console work on code that isn't performance-critical. Paradoxically, it's Sony themselves who largely ushered in this "new-school" mindset with the PS1 SDK, and now they're seen as "too hard" because Microsoft has pushed it even farther...
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Re: Thinker (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» To EngineerLackey
EL, it's a joy to read your insightful posts on a website where such posts are few and far between.
Fanboys like MCS (Common Sense), Aoxomamoxoa, etc. do dilute the experience, not because they are fans of the 360, but because they see fit to criticize the PS3 and PS3 owners because they either don't have it or don't like it.
But then I see refreshing posts from people like you and other unbiased people and this reinvigorates me into spending some more time on this site. Hell, others like Folding Junkie, Quixand and myself are PS3 fans, but they almost never indulge in bashing the 360 unless provoked by 360 fanboys like MCS.
Kudos to you for your consistently refreshing posts!
EL, it's a joy to read your insightful posts on a website where such posts are few and far between.
Fanboys like MCS (Common Sense), Aoxomamoxoa, etc. do dilute the experience, not because they are fans of the 360, but because they see fit to criticize the PS3 and PS3 owners because they either don't have it or don't like it.
But then I see refreshing posts from people like you and other unbiased people and this reinvigorates me into spending some more time on this site. Hell, others like Folding Junkie, Quixand and myself are PS3 fans, but they almost never indulge in bashing the 360 unless provoked by 360 fanboys like MCS.
Kudos to you for your consistently refreshing posts!
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Re: Thabor (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» Speaking of which?
Is there a convient toolchain for PS3 development on a windows box? Or at least one that would work under Cygwin? I don't mind unix, but I'm not fond enough of it to repartition setup a dual boot just so I can tinker around now an then.
Is there a convient toolchain for PS3 development on a windows box? Or at least one that would work under Cygwin? I don't mind unix, but I'm not fond enough of it to repartition setup a dual boot just so I can tinker around now an then.
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Re: Stealth! - 2007-08-18 |
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» I agree with Thinker
Im also a PS3 fan, and i truly hate it when PS3 is getting bashed like its a useless machine. As i said b4 and the people Thinker listed, we backs up the PS3 cause we know its a marvelous Piece of hardware and devs really need to understand about the system and give it more faith.
The only reason why the Devs like the 360 at the moment is cause they had more time to study the console and understand it, they need to be open to the PS3.
Im also a PS3 fan, and i truly hate it when PS3 is getting bashed like its a useless machine. As i said b4 and the people Thinker listed, we backs up the PS3 cause we know its a marvelous Piece of hardware and devs really need to understand about the system and give it more faith.
The only reason why the Devs like the 360 at the moment is cause they had more time to study the console and understand it, they need to be open to the PS3.
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Re: nuffsaid (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» Stealth! @ marvelous Piece of hardware
I agree with this. The PS1 and PS2 was hard to develop games for at first, same goes for the PS3, nothing new there. Did PS1 and PS2 suck in the end? no. The Nintendo 64 was a great bit of kit, but companies went for the PS1 because of the free space on the discs, the N64 couldnt do thing like run FMV coz of the limited space. The Xbox 360 will have the same problems with limited space in the future.
Player97 and Evenmoresaid are you here?, come back to the Haze post, I proved Im right, why cant you prove im wrong. Answer- coz im not.
I agree with this. The PS1 and PS2 was hard to develop games for at first, same goes for the PS3, nothing new there. Did PS1 and PS2 suck in the end? no. The Nintendo 64 was a great bit of kit, but companies went for the PS1 because of the free space on the discs, the N64 couldnt do thing like run FMV coz of the limited space. The Xbox 360 will have the same problems with limited space in the future.
Player97 and Evenmoresaid are you here?, come back to the Haze post, I proved Im right, why cant you prove im wrong. Answer- coz im not.
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Re: Mister Common Sense - 2007-08-18 |
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» not really related to the topic but...
I had a crazy weekend last week. I was partying at this local club called "club booka" until s*it, maybe 3 or so. I got hammered. Poppin' pills, slammin' tequila shots, you name it. I don't remember how I got home. Anyway at some point during that night I must have gotten on ebay and bid (and paid for) a PS3 for some reason. I don't even remember it. But sure enough, after work yesterday, a package is sitting on my porch. "WTF is this?" I'm thinking. "I got a PS3 by mistake? No I never get anything for free." So I checked ebay and sure enough sometime that night I bought a PS3 for whatever reason I don't know why.
That's right, the most infamous PS3 skeptic of all time, Mister Common Sense, now owns a PS3!
It comes as a shock to me as well. For once, I didn't use common sense, and it really cost me. $550 to be exact. Ouch! There goes my plans of getting a 1080p 42" LCD TV.
Now I'm not sure what to do with it. I don't want to re-sell for a loss, no games appeal to me at the moment, I can't return it, I guess I have to keep it. Learn to like the PS3 I must. Noooooo!!!!!!
Anyway I guess I can't really bash the PS3 anymore and I have to try to stay hopeful the new games won't suck. I guess there are some advantages to having a PS3, but few are really useful to me now. I haven't even bought any games. I guess I'll wait until September. Maybe there will be something worth $60 by then?
I had a crazy weekend last week. I was partying at this local club called "club booka" until s*it, maybe 3 or so. I got hammered. Poppin' pills, slammin' tequila shots, you name it. I don't remember how I got home. Anyway at some point during that night I must have gotten on ebay and bid (and paid for) a PS3 for some reason. I don't even remember it. But sure enough, after work yesterday, a package is sitting on my porch. "WTF is this?" I'm thinking. "I got a PS3 by mistake? No I never get anything for free." So I checked ebay and sure enough sometime that night I bought a PS3 for whatever reason I don't know why.
That's right, the most infamous PS3 skeptic of all time, Mister Common Sense, now owns a PS3!
It comes as a shock to me as well. For once, I didn't use common sense, and it really cost me. $550 to be exact. Ouch! There goes my plans of getting a 1080p 42" LCD TV.
Now I'm not sure what to do with it. I don't want to re-sell for a loss, no games appeal to me at the moment, I can't return it, I guess I have to keep it. Learn to like the PS3 I must. Noooooo!!!!!!
Anyway I guess I can't really bash the PS3 anymore and I have to try to stay hopeful the new games won't suck. I guess there are some advantages to having a PS3, but few are really useful to me now. I haven't even bought any games. I guess I'll wait until September. Maybe there will be something worth $60 by then?
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Re: nuffsaid (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» Mister Common Sense, well done
I personally would recommend for you get games cheap on ebay for the mo and dont bother with EA and Ubisoft games (bad ports so far). 3 weeks from now tons and tons of games will be coming now, Sony wont let you down, I swear on it.
I personally would recommend for you get games cheap on ebay for the mo and dont bother with EA and Ubisoft games (bad ports so far). 3 weeks from now tons and tons of games will be coming now, Sony wont let you down, I swear on it.
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Re: nuffsaid (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» as for the TV
LCD 32" and below are better than 32" and below plasmas. Plasma 32" and above is better than LCD.... Sonys OLED is better than both, but you get only get 11" and 27" at the mo, bigger ones will be coming out next year.
LCD 32" and below are better than 32" and below plasmas. Plasma 32" and above is better than LCD.... Sonys OLED is better than both, but you get only get 11" and 27" at the mo, bigger ones will be coming out next year.
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by Travis (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» Retards
Let's all post paragraphs about nothing to make ourselves seem smarter, even though half of you people don't know what the hell you are writing and just want to take up space.
Let's all post paragraphs about nothing to make ourselves seem smarter, even though half of you people don't know what the hell you are writing and just want to take up space.
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Re: Barakku (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» Retards
Let's be *****s with bad grammar to make other people feel bad and take up only slightly less space.
Let's be *****s with bad grammar to make other people feel bad and take up only slightly less space.
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by anonymous (Unregistered) - 2007-08-17 |
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» i agree
we didn't see the full potential of the ps2 until we saw god of war 2. i was actually surprised how good it looked on a standard def tv. i felt that gamecube wasn't really pushed either until re4 came out. it's too bad all the other devs dont think this way. most of them dont really take the time to learn it because of their thorough knowledge of how to program for the 360.
we didn't see the full potential of the ps2 until we saw god of war 2. i was actually surprised how good it looked on a standard def tv. i felt that gamecube wasn't really pushed either until re4 came out. it's too bad all the other devs dont think this way. most of them dont really take the time to learn it because of their thorough knowledge of how to program for the 360.
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Re: me (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» hmm
i was under the impression that it wasn;t the tools of devs that was the issue but that it was the processor architecture being asymetrical that caused the main problems with programming on ps3 . is this not true then? so i thought most devs issue was the console creates unnecesary hard work for them. instead of makin a symetrical architecture that actually aids workflow.
i was under the impression that it wasn;t the tools of devs that was the issue but that it was the processor architecture being asymetrical that caused the main problems with programming on ps3 . is this not true then? so i thought most devs issue was the console creates unnecesary hard work for them. instead of makin a symetrical architecture that actually aids workflow.
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by Oslion (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» just noticed this.
i dunno, something i have noticed since i have been working retail and actively keeping up with this.
Sony seems to make things difficult for the people they work with and the consumer base in general. One of the biggest instances of this is thier cameras. It only allows for you to use a memory stick dou. Every other company allows for the use of SD or XD memory cards in thier digital cameras. While i understand the marketing and potential profit value of this it kinda screws the consumer.
So when i heared the PS3 was harder to develop for it wasn't surprising. I admittedly don't know squat about coding so i don't know why it would be harder to code on one then the other. Why wouldn't sony want to make it easier for devs to produce games on thier system. To date neither console has produced a game that graphically kills the other so what could possibly be so hard and why would the coding need to be different?
i dunno, something i have noticed since i have been working retail and actively keeping up with this.
Sony seems to make things difficult for the people they work with and the consumer base in general. One of the biggest instances of this is thier cameras. It only allows for you to use a memory stick dou. Every other company allows for the use of SD or XD memory cards in thier digital cameras. While i understand the marketing and potential profit value of this it kinda screws the consumer.
So when i heared the PS3 was harder to develop for it wasn't surprising. I admittedly don't know squat about coding so i don't know why it would be harder to code on one then the other. Why wouldn't sony want to make it easier for devs to produce games on thier system. To date neither console has produced a game that graphically kills the other so what could possibly be so hard and why would the coding need to be different?
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Re: answers (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» mem stick duo
Sony owns the Memory stick Duo and Pro Duo, so they naturally push the format with their cameras. But Duo and Pro Duo are faster than xD and SD, so in the end, it's better technology anyway.
Sony owns the Memory stick Duo and Pro Duo, so they naturally push the format with their cameras. But Duo and Pro Duo are faster than xD and SD, so in the end, it's better technology anyway.
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Re: EngineerLackey (Unregistered) - 2007-08-19 |
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» xD is proprietary too, but otherwise you're right
XD is totally controlled by Olympus and Fujifilm, so it's not really much better than Memory Stick. The full SD spec is restricted to SD Card Association members, but they at least made the non-DRM parts public (for the sake of having SD included in the OLPC/XO laptop). That said, this attitude has also bugged me. I'm glad that PS3 isn't using the same approach as PS2, where Sony abused Magic Gate to stop competitors from making memory cards and just kept the original 8MByte card at a fairly high price even though flash memory has advanced dramatically since then (as most people here probably know, it's now cheaper to buy a 1GByte flash card than an official 8MByte PS2 card). I'm a little concerned that they're trying to lock up the market on Bluetooth controllers by hiding the Game OS pairing protocol, though - the only third-party wireless pads I've seen for PS3 use a USB receiver, so it looks like Sony may be playing the same game in a different arena...
XD is totally controlled by Olympus and Fujifilm, so it's not really much better than Memory Stick. The full SD spec is restricted to SD Card Association members, but they at least made the non-DRM parts public (for the sake of having SD included in the OLPC/XO laptop). That said, this attitude has also bugged me. I'm glad that PS3 isn't using the same approach as PS2, where Sony abused Magic Gate to stop competitors from making memory cards and just kept the original 8MByte card at a fairly high price even though flash memory has advanced dramatically since then (as most people here probably know, it's now cheaper to buy a 1GByte flash card than an official 8MByte PS2 card). I'm a little concerned that they're trying to lock up the market on Bluetooth controllers by hiding the Game OS pairing protocol, though - the only third-party wireless pads I've seen for PS3 use a USB receiver, so it looks like Sony may be playing the same game in a different arena...
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by JoeNewall (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» Pro Duo
yeh but there like 4 times the price..
yeh but there like 4 times the price..
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Re: mr toasty (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» yeah
them things expensive.
them things expensive.
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Re: Wassakabazzer (Unregistered) - 2007-08-18 |
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» Relativity
Ya man its all relative, wait a few months and the price comes down.
Ya man its all relative, wait a few months and the price comes down.
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