Posted Jun 30, 2009 at 12:22AM by Glenn M.
Listed in:
News,
Cell Processor
Tags:
Sony,
PS2,
patent,
backwards compatible,
Emotion Engine
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For those who don't know, the Emotion Engine is the chip that Sony
designed which acts as the PS2 CPU. The non-backwards compatible PS3s
do not have one of these, hence, no PS2 games. According to the patent
spotted, Sony is readying the code and the technology to use the
Emotion Engine once again.
There's a lot of techie devspeak for the news, but in a nutshell, Sony has found a way to translate instructions from the Emotion Engine into pieces that can be referenced.
From Siliconera: Figure 2 from the patent is a schematic drawing of how the system works. Figure 3A is a drawing of the PlayStation 2’s chipset. Figure 3B is the emotion engine. Figure 4 is where the whole story gets interesting! It’s “an example of a host system based on a cell processor that may be configured to emulate the target system.” The target is figure 3B, the Emotion Engine. Could we be seeing the comeback of the backwards compatible PS3? On the PS3 Slim perhaps? Devs, share your thoughts. On PS3 and backwards compatible:
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[Via Siliconera]
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21 Comments
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by NarooN - 2009-06-30 |
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» .
The guy I referenced in another post here said the initial PS3 Slims wouldn't launch with PS2 BC, so it'd make since because it's cheaper to have us buy and DL the emu software rather than directly implement it.
The guy I referenced in another post here said the initial PS3 Slims wouldn't launch with PS2 BC, so it'd make since because it's cheaper to have us buy and DL the emu software rather than directly implement it.
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Re: Eclipze_ - 2009-06-30 |
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» I don't know about that..
Mainly because it would be kind of unfair, or at least people would see it that way.. Seeing as the 60 and 20 (I think 20) GB PS3's got it without having to pay for it. Even if the 60/20 GB users really did pay for it without knowing I think lots of people would complain about that.
We'll see how it goes though. I remember they gave out a PS2 stability thing through the PSstore really far back when the PS3 just released, so its possible to release something like this with a price now.
Mainly because it would be kind of unfair, or at least people would see it that way.. Seeing as the 60 and 20 (I think 20) GB PS3's got it without having to pay for it. Even if the 60/20 GB users really did pay for it without knowing I think lots of people would complain about that.
We'll see how it goes though. I remember they gave out a PS2 stability thing through the PSstore really far back when the PS3 just released, so its possible to release something like this with a price now.
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Re: divakarr - 2009-06-30 |
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» Beg to differ on Eclipze comment.
The 60GB and 20GB users paid a premium price and if you look at it the 80GB PS3 price + a PS2 price put together is what costed the 60GB PS3.
The 60GB and 20GB users paid a premium price and if you look at it the 80GB PS3 price + a PS2 price put together is what costed the 60GB PS3.
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Re: damonous - 2009-06-30 |
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» Agree with divakarr
Definitely agree. I think paying $100-200 more than the price people pay today for a PS3, is certainly "paying for it" (BC). But, I think it would be a great idea if Sony 'sold' the emulation as components through the PSN Store. THey could add other things no longer on the PS3 (like SACD support), or add new things like "PS1 Network support". --Which is something I'd really love to have: I'd love to be able to play multiplayer on Destruction Derby (PS1) again, like back in the day, or Bushido Blade 1st-person multiplayer mode.
Definitely agree. I think paying $100-200 more than the price people pay today for a PS3, is certainly "paying for it" (BC). But, I think it would be a great idea if Sony 'sold' the emulation as components through the PSN Store. THey could add other things no longer on the PS3 (like SACD support), or add new things like "PS1 Network support". --Which is something I'd really love to have: I'd love to be able to play multiplayer on Destruction Derby (PS1) again, like back in the day, or Bushido Blade 1st-person multiplayer mode.
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Re: NarooN - 2009-06-30 |
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» @damonous
There's no way to implement PS1 networking, unfortunately. The game's themselves would have to be recoded, and the PS1 never officially supported network gaming, so it just can't happen.
I'd like the feature too. I remember Sony saying in PSM (a loonngg time ago) that they thought about releasing a network adapter of some sort for it, but I guess the feature was canned.
There's no way to implement PS1 networking, unfortunately. The game's themselves would have to be recoded, and the PS1 never officially supported network gaming, so it just can't happen.
I'd like the feature too. I remember Sony saying in PSM (a loonngg time ago) that they thought about releasing a network adapter of some sort for it, but I guess the feature was canned.
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Re: Shatterdome - 2009-06-30 |
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» ....
Well, you paid more for your 60/20gb PS3's because you bought them at launch. A bonus for doing that was getting BC. I paid $399 for my 360 at launch, it's just the nature of buying a launch console (except the only bonus I got was an early console death).
If they make an emulator for PS2 games you can guarantee that it will be free via a firmware update or store download.
Then they can put PS2 games on PSN as well as hope for people to go out and buy old PS2 games. I never owned a PS2 so If this was a free update I would be tempted to pick up the Final Fantasy games I did not play on PS2 and God of war, etc....if I had to pay for it, I wouldn't think about it.
Well, you paid more for your 60/20gb PS3's because you bought them at launch. A bonus for doing that was getting BC. I paid $399 for my 360 at launch, it's just the nature of buying a launch console (except the only bonus I got was an early console death).
If they make an emulator for PS2 games you can guarantee that it will be free via a firmware update or store download.
Then they can put PS2 games on PSN as well as hope for people to go out and buy old PS2 games. I never owned a PS2 so If this was a free update I would be tempted to pick up the Final Fantasy games I did not play on PS2 and God of war, etc....if I had to pay for it, I wouldn't think about it.
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Re: sirgrinalot - 2009-06-30 |
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» correction
@ damonous "THey could add other things no longer on the PS3 (like SACD support),"
This is not possible, the systems which did support it like mine hav two seperate laser lenses. One is for SACD's ps2 games and dvd's, while the other lense is for blu ray movies and games. All newer consoles have the one blu ray lense.
@ damonous "THey could add other things no longer on the PS3 (like SACD support),"
This is not possible, the systems which did support it like mine hav two seperate laser lenses. One is for SACD's ps2 games and dvd's, while the other lense is for blu ray movies and games. All newer consoles have the one blu ray lense.
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Re: Eclipze_ - 2009-06-30 |
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» -
I know the 60/20 buyers really payed for that feature, but it was kind of unknown. Just saying I think people would complain about that if they saw something like an emulator in the PSstore with a price tag on it.
I know the 60/20 buyers really payed for that feature, but it was kind of unknown. Just saying I think people would complain about that if they saw something like an emulator in the PSstore with a price tag on it.
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by Lain_OTN - 2009-06-30 |
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» EE emulation is Already Implemented by software in all PS3 Models
The EE software emulation is there since "almost" the very begining.
The First batch of PS3 for JAP and US territories have the EE(CPU) + GS(GPU) Hardware.
For the very first PAL model Sony removed the EE and leave only the GS.
PAL & First batch of 80GB model for US are Hardware GS and Emulated EE.
This pattent means nothing. The very big problem with software emulation is the GS not the EE.
For me this is an old patent.
The EE software emulation is there since "almost" the very begining.
The First batch of PS3 for JAP and US territories have the EE(CPU) + GS(GPU) Hardware.
For the very first PAL model Sony removed the EE and leave only the GS.
PAL & First batch of 80GB model for US are Hardware GS and Emulated EE.
This pattent means nothing. The very big problem with software emulation is the GS not the EE.
For me this is an old patent.
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Re: Alistar - 2009-06-30 |
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» Hmm...
You are quite right.
(Rest not directed to you per-say)
Why people still want or see this possible I can not understand. The PS3's emulation of the PS2's EE is done on the PS3's CellBBE. This leaves little resources from the CellBBE and the RSX chip.
The PS2's GPU (GS chip) was a beast in terms of bandwidth speed, IIRC. The PS3's RSX is, without a doubt, more powerful than the PS2's GS. However, all this means nothing in terms of emulation. You can not 100% emulate something faster on something slower (In this case, the PS2's GS on the PS3's RSX). Each game with need to be individually coded to run on the emulator because of this, IIRC. Been quite a while since I read up on this.
Even PS1 emulation of the non-GS PS3 units isn't 100%.
You are quite right.
(Rest not directed to you per-say)
Why people still want or see this possible I can not understand. The PS3's emulation of the PS2's EE is done on the PS3's CellBBE. This leaves little resources from the CellBBE and the RSX chip.
The PS2's GPU (GS chip) was a beast in terms of bandwidth speed, IIRC. The PS3's RSX is, without a doubt, more powerful than the PS2's GS. However, all this means nothing in terms of emulation. You can not 100% emulate something faster on something slower (In this case, the PS2's GS on the PS3's RSX). Each game with need to be individually coded to run on the emulator because of this, IIRC. Been quite a while since I read up on this.
Even PS1 emulation of the non-GS PS3 units isn't 100%.
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Re: enigmaticdude - 2009-06-30 |
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» its not that old
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1+PTO1+Sect2+HITOFF+d+PG01+p+1+u+%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html+r+1+f+G+l+50+s1+%2220090164205%22.PGNR.+OS+DN/20090164205+RS+DN/20090164205
Plus this emulates both the CPU and the GPU therefore, the EE and GS are completely unnecessary for PS2 emulation on the PS3
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1+PTO1+Sect2+HITOFF+d+PG01+p+1+u+%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html+r+1+f+G+l+50+s1+%2220090164205%22.PGNR.+OS+DN/20090164205+RS+DN/20090164205
Plus this emulates both the CPU and the GPU therefore, the EE and GS are completely unnecessary for PS2 emulation on the PS3
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Re: Lain_OTN - 2009-06-30 |
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» In that case will be helpfull if the title is changed
I see, then some title like EE+GS software emulation patent spotted it's more suitable.
If this is true will be a very good notice for users, will be able to play ps3 titles (I already can with my PAL 60GB model EE software emulated :p ^_^)
And for Sony: Earn more money selling PS2 titles on the PS Store. (It will be great to have PS2 titles on the store)
I see, then some title like EE+GS software emulation patent spotted it's more suitable.
If this is true will be a very good notice for users, will be able to play ps3 titles (I already can with my PAL 60GB model EE software emulated :p ^_^)
And for Sony: Earn more money selling PS2 titles on the PS Store. (It will be great to have PS2 titles on the store)
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by symbyosis - 2009-06-30 |
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» I don't really care for any of this info
I'll live with my bulky 60 Gb PS3 =)
I'll live with my bulky 60 Gb PS3 =)
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by Acteon - 2009-06-30 |
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» Hmm
The only PS2 game I can't play on my 60Gb PS3 is Transformers Armada, which sucks 'cos it's a great game. Otherwise seems fine to me, but I do think backwards compatibility is very important when launching new systems. If it's available as a download to those without it built in, I can only see it as a good thing. At least its optional.
The only PS2 game I can't play on my 60Gb PS3 is Transformers Armada, which sucks 'cos it's a great game. Otherwise seems fine to me, but I do think backwards compatibility is very important when launching new systems. If it's available as a download to those without it built in, I can only see it as a good thing. At least its optional.
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Re: psychoz69 - 2009-06-30 |
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» really?
thats weird cuz i have the game and a 60gb ps3 and it works fine.
thats weird cuz i have the game and a 60gb ps3 and it works fine.
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Re: Silver-Tiger - 2009-06-30 |
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» ...
maybe he has a PAL version. Sometimes a PAL version works while the NTSC won't and the other way around even though it's the same game.
maybe he has a PAL version. Sometimes a PAL version works while the NTSC won't and the other way around even though it's the same game.
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by NeoHumpty - 2009-06-30 |
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» I'm a little lost
Will they have to create new hardware to make this work, or are they going to start offering ps2 games that have been translated for the cell processor? I've always thought dropping the ability to play ps2 games was a bad idea that has kept people with a decent library of games from stepping up.
Will they have to create new hardware to make this work, or are they going to start offering ps2 games that have been translated for the cell processor? I've always thought dropping the ability to play ps2 games was a bad idea that has kept people with a decent library of games from stepping up.
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by your_fire - 2009-06-30 |
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» hmmm
might be for their new line of gaming phones?
might be for their new line of gaming phones?
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by jgr9 - 2009-06-30 |
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» ...
I just hope they fix the freezing issue with SWB2 on the original 80gb. Apparently it doesn't freeze on the 60Gb and I'm also read that the Greatest Hits version (which I have) does freeze on the 80gb, but the non-Greatest Hits version does not. Strange.
I just hope they fix the freezing issue with SWB2 on the original 80gb. Apparently it doesn't freeze on the 60Gb and I'm also read that the Greatest Hits version (which I have) does freeze on the 80gb, but the non-Greatest Hits version does not. Strange.
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by valefour - 2009-06-30 |
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» not a dev or anything close...
...but with all the psp talk and rumors, is it possible that this might be in store for the psp go or the psp-2 or something??? it would be sick if they could emulate the ps2 on a portable... just a thought. ^_^
...but with all the psp talk and rumors, is it possible that this might be in store for the psp go or the psp-2 or something??? it would be sick if they could emulate the ps2 on a portable... just a thought. ^_^
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by JETFIRE007 - 2009-06-30 |
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» AH HA!!!
The ps3 slim is going to have firmware 3.00 and ps2 backwards compatibly .no 3.00 fw sure... no ps3 slim sure...
no new psp? look what happened (psp go) i am sure the same will happen with the ps3 (ps3 slim)
The ps3 slim is going to have firmware 3.00 and ps2 backwards compatibly .no 3.00 fw sure... no ps3 slim sure...
no new psp? look what happened (psp go) i am sure the same will happen with the ps3 (ps3 slim)
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