Posted Feb 25, 2009 at 12:34PM by Isaac C.
Listed in:
Games,
Opinions & Analysis,
The Wheelman
Tags:
Microsoft,
Sony,
Midway Games,
Shaun,
Plato
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It's one thing when Sony and Microsoft throw mud at each other and call each other names, it's quite another when actual game developers throw down and join the rumble. Shaun Himmerick, Executive Producer for Wheelman, made some stinging remarks about programming for the PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 360: The politically incorrect answer is that the PS3 is a huge pain in the ass. Anyone making a game, if you’re going to make it for both [360 and PS3], just lead on the PS3 because if it works on the PS3 it’ll work on 360. The easiest way to look at it is, the 360 has one big chunk of memory, but the PS3 has two chunks of memory that in total are the same size as the Xbox, but because they’re split you can’t share memory the same way. That will bite you in the ass, and it bit us in the ass bad. We had to play catch up on the PS3 because of the memory constraints and how it renders, how it processes is just different. And it’s harder on the PS3. The Xbox is just like a dumb PC, which is great because it’s easier to build a game on a PC. Eeyowch. Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the intersection. The Wheelman will be released on March 24 for the both the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3. I wonder if there are any differences between the two versions. Mudslinging:
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by Onimushaclan - 2009-02-25 |
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» hmm
i think they're all dumb, remember these are man-made products, without commands they do absolutely nothing!
i think they're all dumb, remember these are man-made products, without commands they do absolutely nothing!
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Re: BIH - 2009-02-25 |
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» ....
The fact that hes the dev from the game wheel man says it all.
The fact that hes the dev from the game wheel man says it all.
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Re: Master Chef - 2009-02-25 |
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» lol that's what went thru my head
This guy is ragging on both consoles after developing a game that will suck guaranteed
Maybe that's why, he himself probably knows the game sucks so now he's angry
This guy is ragging on both consoles after developing a game that will suck guaranteed
Maybe that's why, he himself probably knows the game sucks so now he's angry
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Re: saldude2 - 2009-02-26 |
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» s
This my theory but
I beleive that if the game is small, Xbox will have better graphics cuz xbox 360 disc memory has less space
This is just my theory anyway
This my theory but
I beleive that if the game is small, Xbox will have better graphics cuz xbox 360 disc memory has less space
This is just my theory anyway
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Re: Solid Snicker - 2009-02-26 |
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» midway games
not a big deal really, the guys in charge there seemed ok when they came to our university
not a big deal really, the guys in charge there seemed ok when they came to our university
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Re: Stealth! - 2009-02-26 |
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» while you make a slight point Onimushaclan
you have to realize this is old news. We've known this for a year now, so Wheel Man dev isn't stating anything new. We knew the architecture of the PS3 is advance, and 360's are alot easier, which is why Valve have backed up MS this generation.
however devs have more knowledge when it comes to programming, so it's not a surprise he'd say this. In fact multiplatform games from the start should have had the PS3 as the lead. Games like Orange box(maybe not as much) and some of the early Multiplats wouldn't have been $h!tty.
I still don't see why he couldn't get developer tools from other top devs like Naughty Dog, or something to help the development go very easy. I mean the PS3 isn't as hard to program nowadays compared to the PS3 release, unless you was living under a rock the past year and a half.
you have to realize this is old news. We've known this for a year now, so Wheel Man dev isn't stating anything new. We knew the architecture of the PS3 is advance, and 360's are alot easier, which is why Valve have backed up MS this generation.
however devs have more knowledge when it comes to programming, so it's not a surprise he'd say this. In fact multiplatform games from the start should have had the PS3 as the lead. Games like Orange box(maybe not as much) and some of the early Multiplats wouldn't have been $h!tty.
I still don't see why he couldn't get developer tools from other top devs like Naughty Dog, or something to help the development go very easy. I mean the PS3 isn't as hard to program nowadays compared to the PS3 release, unless you was living under a rock the past year and a half.
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by Darkshneider - 2009-02-25 |
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» "I wonder if there are any differences between the two versions."
Most likely the PS3 version will be shi*ty and the 360 will be glorified as another example of "how the 360 has better graphics than PS3". Just like a lot of other ports in the past.
Most likely the PS3 version will be shi*ty and the 360 will be glorified as another example of "how the 360 has better graphics than PS3". Just like a lot of other ports in the past.
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Re: steve_723 - 2009-02-25 |
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» FAILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
ps3 has better graphics but less ram than the 360
either way u put it shared ram is total sh.it and you know it
in the 360 if the game requires alot of ram THE GRAPHICS WILL and i mran WILL suck!!! because it will push over into the graphick memory because its shared.
ps3 has a simple 256 256 which is sad but developoer can make it even out :P
ps3 has better graphics but less ram than the 360
either way u put it shared ram is total sh.it and you know it
in the 360 if the game requires alot of ram THE GRAPHICS WILL and i mran WILL suck!!! because it will push over into the graphick memory because its shared.
ps3 has a simple 256 256 which is sad but developoer can make it even out :P
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Re: Allstaraugustine - 2009-02-25 |
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» ok.
anybody who says the 360 has better graphics than the PS3 is just plain ignorant and immature...shut the hell up, its proven by MGS4 and killzone 2 that the PS3 can handle WAY more than the 360...thats kind of why MGS4 is never being ported to 360 because kojima stated it wasnt possible.
anybody who says the 360 has better graphics than the PS3 is just plain ignorant and immature...shut the hell up, its proven by MGS4 and killzone 2 that the PS3 can handle WAY more than the 360...thats kind of why MGS4 is never being ported to 360 because kojima stated it wasnt possible.
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Re: The Tjalian - 2009-02-25 |
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» Oh for petes sake.
@Darkshneider - Probably, but not in the way most people would ever notice.
@Steve - Do yourself a favour and be quiet. The 360 and PS3 has exactly the same amount of RAM - 512MB. Shared RAM isn't total ***** at all, why would you even think this? If the game requires a lot of RAM (i.e. more then 256MB), why would the graphics suck? It's SHARED Memory, meaning, it doesn't matter what its used for. The game could have a fantastic compression scheme which doesn't require the game to take up the whole space.
Plus, do you think games always use up 256MB just for graphics? Do you think the ones that don't are crappy for some (ignorant) reason?
The PS3's "simple 256 256" RAM split, as you call it, just leads to restrictions which ends up leading to an inferior product if the publisher wants the game looking the same on both consoles. If there's less then 256MB RAM used for graphics being used, but the developers want to use more then 256MB for the rest of the game, why shouldn't they?
@Darkshneider - Probably, but not in the way most people would ever notice.
@Steve - Do yourself a favour and be quiet. The 360 and PS3 has exactly the same amount of RAM - 512MB. Shared RAM isn't total ***** at all, why would you even think this? If the game requires a lot of RAM (i.e. more then 256MB), why would the graphics suck? It's SHARED Memory, meaning, it doesn't matter what its used for. The game could have a fantastic compression scheme which doesn't require the game to take up the whole space.
Plus, do you think games always use up 256MB just for graphics? Do you think the ones that don't are crappy for some (ignorant) reason?
The PS3's "simple 256 256" RAM split, as you call it, just leads to restrictions which ends up leading to an inferior product if the publisher wants the game looking the same on both consoles. If there's less then 256MB RAM used for graphics being used, but the developers want to use more then 256MB for the rest of the game, why shouldn't they?
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Re: The Tjalian - 2009-02-25 |
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» Oh, and I forgot to mention...
@Allstar - You do realise you looked pretty ignorant (and hypocritical) claiming 360 fans has better graphics, and then claim the PS3 has better graphics, right?
@Allstar - You do realise you looked pretty ignorant (and hypocritical) claiming 360 fans has better graphics, and then claim the PS3 has better graphics, right?
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Re: PS34ME - 2009-02-25 |
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» @Allstaraugustine
sorry but mgs4 can be done on the 360, split over 4 or 5 dvds. neither mgs4 nor killzone is doing anything graphically beyond the 360, and im a huge ps3 fan. kojima didnt say mgs4 was impossible on 360 cause of power, he said it probably is not possible to PORT it to 360 because its written exclusively for ps3 hardware. it can be done with enough time and money, but its unlikely they would go to all the effort to do it. personally i think mgs5 will be multiformat.
sorry but mgs4 can be done on the 360, split over 4 or 5 dvds. neither mgs4 nor killzone is doing anything graphically beyond the 360, and im a huge ps3 fan. kojima didnt say mgs4 was impossible on 360 cause of power, he said it probably is not possible to PORT it to 360 because its written exclusively for ps3 hardware. it can be done with enough time and money, but its unlikely they would go to all the effort to do it. personally i think mgs5 will be multiformat.
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Re: NarooN - 2009-02-25 |
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» ...
To say KZ2 can be done on 360 is ignorance. I'm not a fanboy, but if you actually *knew* the very processes and techniques that were used to make the graphics as good as they are, you'd know the 360 just can't do some of them.
To say KZ2 can be done on 360 is ignorance. I'm not a fanboy, but if you actually *knew* the very processes and techniques that were used to make the graphics as good as they are, you'd know the 360 just can't do some of them.
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Re: Darkshneider - 2009-02-25 |
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» Listen
What I menat by my comment was that since the game will be ported to the PS3, it will most likely be done the wrong way causing graphical errors and small details that will have 360 fans screaming "ours is better than yours because of X Y or Z in graphics".
When games do get ported the way that even Himmerick mentions (develop on the PS3 and then port to the 360), they tend to be good on both sides (Burnout Paradise for example), that or have 2 teams working on each system like CoD4 was.
Im not talking about which console is better than which one, Im just stating a fact that has plagued some ports in the past. Hopefully these guys will change it this time around.
What I menat by my comment was that since the game will be ported to the PS3, it will most likely be done the wrong way causing graphical errors and small details that will have 360 fans screaming "ours is better than yours because of X Y or Z in graphics".
When games do get ported the way that even Himmerick mentions (develop on the PS3 and then port to the 360), they tend to be good on both sides (Burnout Paradise for example), that or have 2 teams working on each system like CoD4 was.
Im not talking about which console is better than which one, Im just stating a fact that has plagued some ports in the past. Hopefully these guys will change it this time around.
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Re: wilmheath - 2009-02-25 |
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» @naroon
Would you mind explaining them to us please? Obviously you understand a lot more than the rest of us peon's and are therefore an elite fanboy. Please share your knowledge wise fanboy.
Would you mind explaining them to us please? Obviously you understand a lot more than the rest of us peon's and are therefore an elite fanboy. Please share your knowledge wise fanboy.
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Re: Allstaraugustine - 2009-02-25 |
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» .
@Tijalian.. you do realize you sound pretty retarded if you re-read what you commented right? it doesnt make any sense what-so-ever.
@PS34ME...You do know that PS3s hardware LITERALLY has better technology...i dont see why people think that the 360 can do the same or better...because its hardwarely (yes i did just make that word up) impossible unless they bring out a new 360 with 8 cell processors like the PS3 has.
@Tijalian.. you do realize you sound pretty retarded if you re-read what you commented right? it doesnt make any sense what-so-ever.
@PS34ME...You do know that PS3s hardware LITERALLY has better technology...i dont see why people think that the 360 can do the same or better...because its hardwarely (yes i did just make that word up) impossible unless they bring out a new 360 with 8 cell processors like the PS3 has.
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Re: NarooN - 2009-02-25 |
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» jesus.
"Would you mind explaining them to us please? Obviously you understand a lot more than the rest of us peon's and are therefore an elite fanboy. Please share your knowledge wise fanboy. "
Obviously since I say I'm not a fanboy, but go on to make a claim that's already been proven, that makes me a fanboy. Take your fail attempt at wisecracking and shove it up your ass. I was being nice, but if you really want to know why, now you can just go to us.playstation.com's forums and ask yourself.
And make sure to ask one of the actual KZ2 devs, they'll explain it in great detail. Oh, but I guess that'll make them fanboys too though.
Have fun, douche.
"Would you mind explaining them to us please? Obviously you understand a lot more than the rest of us peon's and are therefore an elite fanboy. Please share your knowledge wise fanboy. "
Obviously since I say I'm not a fanboy, but go on to make a claim that's already been proven, that makes me a fanboy. Take your fail attempt at wisecracking and shove it up your ass. I was being nice, but if you really want to know why, now you can just go to us.playstation.com's forums and ask yourself.
And make sure to ask one of the actual KZ2 devs, they'll explain it in great detail. Oh, but I guess that'll make them fanboys too though.
Have fun, douche.
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Re: phiyuku - 2009-02-25 |
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» Actually
The PS3 does not have 8 Cell Processors. It has a stripped 1 Cell Processor. It has 7 SPUS while I think a normal Cell has 8 SPUS and the Xbox 360's has a tri core processor very similar to a computer making it basically a general processor or in this case a "dumb" processor. This is generally easy to program for because devs have been working with the PC for quite some time. This makes it easy to program for but if a dev programed strictly for the PS3 to max out efficency of the cell architecture, the cell would win with no competition.
The PS3 does not have 8 Cell Processors. It has a stripped 1 Cell Processor. It has 7 SPUS while I think a normal Cell has 8 SPUS and the Xbox 360's has a tri core processor very similar to a computer making it basically a general processor or in this case a "dumb" processor. This is generally easy to program for because devs have been working with the PC for quite some time. This makes it easy to program for but if a dev programed strictly for the PS3 to max out efficency of the cell architecture, the cell would win with no competition.
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Re: phiyuku - 2009-02-25 |
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» Also about RAM
PS3 having less RAM is half true. While PS3 and XBox 360 have the same amount of RAM added up the OS for the PS3 uses more RAM than Xbox 360's OS which uses less RAM therefore 360 has a slight advantage in RAM. But wait, why is PS3 RAM split. This is because if I remember correctly PS3 has 2 different types of RAM, a slow RAM (regular RAM used in the Xbox 360 as well) and the faster RAM called XDR RAM
PS3 having less RAM is half true. While PS3 and XBox 360 have the same amount of RAM added up the OS for the PS3 uses more RAM than Xbox 360's OS which uses less RAM therefore 360 has a slight advantage in RAM. But wait, why is PS3 RAM split. This is because if I remember correctly PS3 has 2 different types of RAM, a slow RAM (regular RAM used in the Xbox 360 as well) and the faster RAM called XDR RAM
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Re: wilmheath - 2009-02-27 |
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» @naroon
Exactly the response I thought I would get. You can dish it out but can't take it.
Exactly the response I thought I would get. You can dish it out but can't take it.
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Re: NarooN - 2009-02-28 |
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» LOL!
What did I "dish out" to begin with? I state facts and I can't "take" someone trying to prove me wrong? Someone's too asinine and afraid to go get the facts himself apparently. GG.
What did I "dish out" to begin with? I state facts and I can't "take" someone trying to prove me wrong? Someone's too asinine and afraid to go get the facts himself apparently. GG.
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by NathanDrake - 2009-02-25 |
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» bleh
The game doesn't even look very good. It's a video game 'starring' one of the world's crappiest action movie stars...
The game doesn't even look very good. It's a video game 'starring' one of the world's crappiest action movie stars...
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by Silver-Tiger - 2009-02-25 |
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» ....
They said it themselves, just start developing on the PS3 and the port it to 360. No problems of crappy ports this way.
They said it themselves, just start developing on the PS3 and the port it to 360. No problems of crappy ports this way.
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by HDRasta - 2009-02-25 |
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» Darkshneider you FAIL
read the article DEV on the PS3 and port to the 360 no problem.
and what drugs r u on have you checked out Unchartered 2 yet Graphic CPU's maxed out to make the game one of the best graphic'd game out there.
360 FAILS in every part compared to PS3
read the article DEV on the PS3 and port to the 360 no problem.
and what drugs r u on have you checked out Unchartered 2 yet Graphic CPU's maxed out to make the game one of the best graphic'd game out there.
360 FAILS in every part compared to PS3
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Re: Darkshneider - 2009-02-25 |
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» Yeah
I didnt say the opposite. What I said was that the PS3 version is gonna be a port since "We had to play catch up on the PS3 because of the memory constraints and how it renders, how it processes is just different. And it%u2019s harder on the PS3.". The way I understood that was "we started on 360 first then had to practically put it on hold to optimize the PS3 version" still used the 360 as the lead dev console.
I didnt say the opposite. What I said was that the PS3 version is gonna be a port since "We had to play catch up on the PS3 because of the memory constraints and how it renders, how it processes is just different. And it%u2019s harder on the PS3.". The way I understood that was "we started on 360 first then had to practically put it on hold to optimize the PS3 version" still used the 360 as the lead dev console.
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Re: steve_723 - 2009-02-25 |
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» Three Letters
@ HDRasta
Y E S
@ HDRasta
Y E S
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by ShadeyProphet - 2009-02-25 |
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» who cares...
So the dev for wheelman isnt fond of or experienced enough to be working with the ps3, it doest entilte him the right to have an opinion with any heft,,
it.s like the developer of et for the atari having an opinion,, does anyone really care?
I doubt it,,,
So the dev for wheelman isnt fond of or experienced enough to be working with the ps3, it doest entilte him the right to have an opinion with any heft,,
it.s like the developer of et for the atari having an opinion,, does anyone really care?
I doubt it,,,
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by poopoopilot - 2009-02-25 |
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» Clearly this is a wii game
Why else dump on each system?
Why else dump on each system?
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by hush404 - 2009-02-25 |
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» lol
What a tar. I could of told them that before they even started and I'm a *****bag. :P
What a tar. I could of told them that before they even started and I'm a *****bag. :P
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by nikko03 - 2009-02-25 |
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» ugh..
man what a useless game neway who cares what he thinks its a game about vin deisl...no one will buy it so he just wasted his time making the game, and his breath saying that...as for the retards who think killzone 2's graphics arent a. a milestone in development for consoles, and b. only possible for the ps3 then point a game either out or in development that comes close on the 360. And im not even going to mention god of war 3 or heavy rain. and im not a fanboy i own both im just stating the obvious truth
man what a useless game neway who cares what he thinks its a game about vin deisl...no one will buy it so he just wasted his time making the game, and his breath saying that...as for the retards who think killzone 2's graphics arent a. a milestone in development for consoles, and b. only possible for the ps3 then point a game either out or in development that comes close on the 360. And im not even going to mention god of war 3 or heavy rain. and im not a fanboy i own both im just stating the obvious truth
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by Binary - 2009-02-25 |
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» meh
it dont matter whos the best and whos a pain the ass. as long as it lets me play games on a crystal clear picture with no bugs thats fine to me.
Who cares how hard is to make games. we not the developers so who gives a *****. The guy probably now knows that he just wasted 5 months of his life on a *****ty game and wants to bash on how consoles sucks because he cant make a better game the way he wants to.
it dont matter whos the best and whos a pain the ass. as long as it lets me play games on a crystal clear picture with no bugs thats fine to me.
Who cares how hard is to make games. we not the developers so who gives a *****. The guy probably now knows that he just wasted 5 months of his life on a *****ty game and wants to bash on how consoles sucks because he cant make a better game the way he wants to.
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Re: avatar76 - 2009-02-25 |
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» Hard to dev for + delays
We should care and the console companies should care even more. If the dev can't get the games out the door because of some
5h!tty dev tool we don't get to play them and the console companies don't get that commission on the game being sold. Sony's 5h!tty attitude that it's the dev's problem if they can't write games for them is the thing that's most shooting them in the foot this gen.
We should care and the console companies should care even more. If the dev can't get the games out the door because of some
5h!tty dev tool we don't get to play them and the console companies don't get that commission on the game being sold. Sony's 5h!tty attitude that it's the dev's problem if they can't write games for them is the thing that's most shooting them in the foot this gen.
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by BigGulps - 2009-02-25 |
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» The XBOX is just like a dumb PC
I don't think we should be bashing this guy. He really laid out how developers feel about current platforms. I'm able to understand his explanations in layman's terms without getting into too many details. I have sympathy for developers because not all of them are rocket scientists. I mean the Cell demonstates supercomputing power on a single chip; I'm not sure developers will ever tap into its full potential. Games like MGS4, Killzone 2, and GoW3 take years to make and it goes to show if you put the time and effort into the PS3 you get a great game. Developers complained about the PS2 being hard to code for, but they are still making games for it. Soon, all this negative talk about the cell architecture and the memory constraints is going to disappear because Sony is actively improving their libraries, tools and developer support in order to make PS3 development easier.
I don't think we should be bashing this guy. He really laid out how developers feel about current platforms. I'm able to understand his explanations in layman's terms without getting into too many details. I have sympathy for developers because not all of them are rocket scientists. I mean the Cell demonstates supercomputing power on a single chip; I'm not sure developers will ever tap into its full potential. Games like MGS4, Killzone 2, and GoW3 take years to make and it goes to show if you put the time and effort into the PS3 you get a great game. Developers complained about the PS2 being hard to code for, but they are still making games for it. Soon, all this negative talk about the cell architecture and the memory constraints is going to disappear because Sony is actively improving their libraries, tools and developer support in order to make PS3 development easier.
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by avatar76 - 2009-02-25 |
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» LMFAO
Just like any time anyone dare speak the truth about how difficult that PS3 is to dev for all the PS3 fanboys pour out of the woodwork to defend something they know nothing about.
Gabe Newell was crucified on these forums for daring to question Sony's ***** development tools, in some cases by the very staff who run this site. You PS3 fanboys really are all morons, the guy here wasn't even saying anything bad about the PS3 itself.
I wonder if a suspicion I've long held is true, computer literate people tend to back the 360, idiotic fanboys who no nothing about computer hardware or software development go Playstation3. From what I've seen that seems to be the case lately.
This post here by Allstaraugustine really cracked me up.
"anybody who says the 360 has better graphics than the PS3 is just plain ignorant and immature...shut the hell up."
He tells people who say the 360 has a better GPU are immature and ignorant and shows us how mature and knowledgable he is by telling people to "shut the hell up". Wow real mature Allstar. He then proceeds to back up his statement by refering to games that use PS3's superior sized storage facilities as a basis to back up his claims the PS3 has better graphics. It's like saying because my Pentium1 has better graphics because it's got a 1 terabyte HDD attached to it. Well yes it might be able to hold more video then my 360 can but do I really care about video when I want to play a game not watch a video.
Just a few thoughts for you to run through your head PS3 fanboys before you go posting your brain farts on these forums. That is if a thought ever does go through your head.
Oh and I know the next thing I'll hear about from you once you realise I actually know what I'm talking about with the differences between the 360 and the PS3 is RROD. Well I'd have to say as a RROD graduate it doesn't actually bother me much anymore. It doesn't affect how the console plays while it's working, and it's an issue which is fixed under warranty.
Just like any time anyone dare speak the truth about how difficult that PS3 is to dev for all the PS3 fanboys pour out of the woodwork to defend something they know nothing about.
Gabe Newell was crucified on these forums for daring to question Sony's ***** development tools, in some cases by the very staff who run this site. You PS3 fanboys really are all morons, the guy here wasn't even saying anything bad about the PS3 itself.
I wonder if a suspicion I've long held is true, computer literate people tend to back the 360, idiotic fanboys who no nothing about computer hardware or software development go Playstation3. From what I've seen that seems to be the case lately.
This post here by Allstaraugustine really cracked me up.
"anybody who says the 360 has better graphics than the PS3 is just plain ignorant and immature...shut the hell up."
He tells people who say the 360 has a better GPU are immature and ignorant and shows us how mature and knowledgable he is by telling people to "shut the hell up". Wow real mature Allstar. He then proceeds to back up his statement by refering to games that use PS3's superior sized storage facilities as a basis to back up his claims the PS3 has better graphics. It's like saying because my Pentium1 has better graphics because it's got a 1 terabyte HDD attached to it. Well yes it might be able to hold more video then my 360 can but do I really care about video when I want to play a game not watch a video.
Just a few thoughts for you to run through your head PS3 fanboys before you go posting your brain farts on these forums. That is if a thought ever does go through your head.
Oh and I know the next thing I'll hear about from you once you realise I actually know what I'm talking about with the differences between the 360 and the PS3 is RROD. Well I'd have to say as a RROD graduate it doesn't actually bother me much anymore. It doesn't affect how the console plays while it's working, and it's an issue which is fixed under warranty.
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Re: aroxim - 2009-02-26 |
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» dude....
you were just blabbing in like 3/4s of that message lol. i could say im a ps3 fanboy or whatever. and i work at gamestop. and i am computer literate. now with the fact that i work with gamestop, i dont go around selling ps3s only cause i like it. the absolute truth is, yes the 360 is handling games ALOT better than the ps3 is. the 360 is easier to develop for the facts stated above. the 360 is more close to a pc therefore developers kinda already been working with pcs for a long time. while the ps3 in counter part uses more advanced set ups therefore making it a pain in the ass to develop. my personal belief is that developers just need to get used to it. and eventually it wont be so hard anymore. i love my ps3. but the 360 does have better games and for graphics... one might be slightly better than the other... but *****.. i just wanna play my games! not drool over graphics...
you were just blabbing in like 3/4s of that message lol. i could say im a ps3 fanboy or whatever. and i work at gamestop. and i am computer literate. now with the fact that i work with gamestop, i dont go around selling ps3s only cause i like it. the absolute truth is, yes the 360 is handling games ALOT better than the ps3 is. the 360 is easier to develop for the facts stated above. the 360 is more close to a pc therefore developers kinda already been working with pcs for a long time. while the ps3 in counter part uses more advanced set ups therefore making it a pain in the ass to develop. my personal belief is that developers just need to get used to it. and eventually it wont be so hard anymore. i love my ps3. but the 360 does have better games and for graphics... one might be slightly better than the other... but *****.. i just wanna play my games! not drool over graphics...
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Re: avatar76 - 2009-02-26 |
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» @aroxim
I'd fully agree with you on all that mate, I just get fed up with fanboy ***** being posted on here. Morons posting on here that the PS3 does way better graphics then the 360. I don't disagree with anything you've said. I also don't doubt that the PS3 will probably be still sony's flagship console when MS have moved on to the xb720 as their's or whatever (it just can't stay current for as long).
I'd fully agree with you on all that mate, I just get fed up with fanboy ***** being posted on here. Morons posting on here that the PS3 does way better graphics then the 360. I don't disagree with anything you've said. I also don't doubt that the PS3 will probably be still sony's flagship console when MS have moved on to the xb720 as their's or whatever (it just can't stay current for as long).
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by the by - 2009-02-26 |
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» @avatar76
first of all, paragraph please, my eyes hurt reading all that!
secondly, Naroon is right in what he says, its not fanboyism, its a tech thing, the cell allows for more advance graphic technique to be used to get the graphics to do what the 360 can't.
who mentioned RRod? you're just showing a lower mentality by coming out with a lot of rubbish in that post!
first of all, paragraph please, my eyes hurt reading all that!
secondly, Naroon is right in what he says, its not fanboyism, its a tech thing, the cell allows for more advance graphic technique to be used to get the graphics to do what the 360 can't.
who mentioned RRod? you're just showing a lower mentality by coming out with a lot of rubbish in that post!
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Re: avatar76 - 2009-02-26 |
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» @the by, See aroxim's response
I believe in giving credit when credit is due, it's not a tech thing at all you don't know what you are talking about.
The Cell CPU in the PS3 is greater then the 360's 3xPPCs, the optical drive in the PS3 has a greater capacity then the 360 (albeit a slower read speed, necesitating in some cases games be copied to the HDD).
The GPU however in the 360 is much better then the GPU in the PS3 as Sony thought like alot of hardware manufacturers mistakenly think is that the a great CPU (the cell) will make up for the GPUs shortcomings. Unfortunately for Sony, not, so in alot of cases yes the 360 edges out in front (in graphics only). If like aroxim says you're not worried about the graphics so much then that's cool, it annoys me when people try to say otherwise.
The cell _might_ conceivably allow for some more polygons to be added to a 3D model, those teraflops have got to count for something right? But increasing poly counts is pretty old school these days with the newer techniques like bump mapping etc, poly counts aren't that relevant anymore, RAM and bandwidth to the GPU are more important.
Obviously the exclusives on the PS3 appeal to him more then the ones on the 360.
Also BTW, to aroxim, no I would not call you a fanboy, PS3 fan yes but you have your reasons for that. Everything you said there was true about how the PS3 > 360.
The reason I mentioned RROD is that's usually the next thing PS3 fanboys come out with when they realise "oh cr4p I don't know what I'm talking about".
The fact of that matter is they're both great consoles and in many ways the PS3 is better then the 360 but not everything is better on it then the 360 (the GPU which is pretty damn important to me). I love stuff looking the best because I'm a bit of an AV nerd.
I believe in giving credit when credit is due, it's not a tech thing at all you don't know what you are talking about.
The Cell CPU in the PS3 is greater then the 360's 3xPPCs, the optical drive in the PS3 has a greater capacity then the 360 (albeit a slower read speed, necesitating in some cases games be copied to the HDD).
The GPU however in the 360 is much better then the GPU in the PS3 as Sony thought like alot of hardware manufacturers mistakenly think is that the a great CPU (the cell) will make up for the GPUs shortcomings. Unfortunately for Sony, not, so in alot of cases yes the 360 edges out in front (in graphics only). If like aroxim says you're not worried about the graphics so much then that's cool, it annoys me when people try to say otherwise.
The cell _might_ conceivably allow for some more polygons to be added to a 3D model, those teraflops have got to count for something right? But increasing poly counts is pretty old school these days with the newer techniques like bump mapping etc, poly counts aren't that relevant anymore, RAM and bandwidth to the GPU are more important.
Obviously the exclusives on the PS3 appeal to him more then the ones on the 360.
Also BTW, to aroxim, no I would not call you a fanboy, PS3 fan yes but you have your reasons for that. Everything you said there was true about how the PS3 > 360.
The reason I mentioned RROD is that's usually the next thing PS3 fanboys come out with when they realise "oh cr4p I don't know what I'm talking about".
The fact of that matter is they're both great consoles and in many ways the PS3 is better then the 360 but not everything is better on it then the 360 (the GPU which is pretty damn important to me). I love stuff looking the best because I'm a bit of an AV nerd.
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by bazzerk - 2009-02-26 |
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» Please read the article again......................
I think people just take in what they want to hear sometimes, this is okay if you keep it to yourself, but if you spout it out to others then its misinterpretation. The guy actually says the PS3 is a pain in the 'huge' ass! While the Xbox 360 is a dumb PC basically stating that PC's are easier to program for. He also states that if a game is made on the PS3 it 'WILL' work for the Xbox 360. Work that out for then, because what he is saying here is that due to the memory comfiguration on the PS3 if a game works for it, then it will definitely work on the Xbox 360! Knowhere in this article does it suggest that the PS3 is superior to the 360, infact it states the complete oposite. So read things properly! By the way I dont own either of these consoles but I am a programmer.
I think people just take in what they want to hear sometimes, this is okay if you keep it to yourself, but if you spout it out to others then its misinterpretation. The guy actually says the PS3 is a pain in the 'huge' ass! While the Xbox 360 is a dumb PC basically stating that PC's are easier to program for. He also states that if a game is made on the PS3 it 'WILL' work for the Xbox 360. Work that out for then, because what he is saying here is that due to the memory comfiguration on the PS3 if a game works for it, then it will definitely work on the Xbox 360! Knowhere in this article does it suggest that the PS3 is superior to the 360, infact it states the complete oposite. So read things properly! By the way I dont own either of these consoles but I am a programmer.
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by Solid Snicker - 2009-02-26 |
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» midway games?
These guys actually came to our university and talked about the making of wheelman, i think this comment might have actually come from the talk they did at our university.
Not a big deal really, just telling it how it is, too many people getting all frustrated about it on here, like over 30 comments that i can't even be bothered reading.
These guys actually came to our university and talked about the making of wheelman, i think this comment might have actually come from the talk they did at our university.
Not a big deal really, just telling it how it is, too many people getting all frustrated about it on here, like over 30 comments that i can't even be bothered reading.
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by yoshi314 - 2009-02-26 |
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» guesswork
when the developer blames the hardware, it means he has stupid programmers. psp has even stricter hardware constraints and yet somehow there are great games coming out, and you don't really hear complaints about how low ram and slow cpu it has.
a hardware, be it ps3/xbox360/pc/whatever else you can think of, shows its greatness by the skill of the developers utilizing it.
there were similar complaints about ps2. what people didn't understand was the fact that it's radical architectural difference required totally different programming concepts.
ps2 was designed for one thing - ability to render quick 3d action at high framerate. because of that console has multiple cpu's, two dedicated stream processing units, and really insane bandwidth for connecting ram and graphics chip.
on the pc, you usually throw model data and textures into graphics ram and then do the rest. on the ps2 you constantly feed all the data from system ram into the graphics chip.
sony released some tools called "performance analyzers" that showed developes that pc-based concept of programming really failed on ps2. most code was using only one processor, in sub-optimal way.
ps3 probably follows similar design - they don't try to have similar architecture as pc, and if a skilled programmer can take advantage of that, he probably can squeeze impressive performance from ps3 (same goes for other platforms, too).
afaik the ps2 game developers really learned to do things "right" with ps2, somewhere after gran turismo was released. this game was a real eye-opener for lots of people. but the games that really started to make really good use of ps2 hardware came ~2005-2006, i think.
so, we could say that "true" ps3 games that will really utilize the ps3's potential will come out somewhere in 1-2 years. or maybe even later. i wonder how long will it take on other platforms.
when the developer blames the hardware, it means he has stupid programmers. psp has even stricter hardware constraints and yet somehow there are great games coming out, and you don't really hear complaints about how low ram and slow cpu it has.
a hardware, be it ps3/xbox360/pc/whatever else you can think of, shows its greatness by the skill of the developers utilizing it.
there were similar complaints about ps2. what people didn't understand was the fact that it's radical architectural difference required totally different programming concepts.
ps2 was designed for one thing - ability to render quick 3d action at high framerate. because of that console has multiple cpu's, two dedicated stream processing units, and really insane bandwidth for connecting ram and graphics chip.
on the pc, you usually throw model data and textures into graphics ram and then do the rest. on the ps2 you constantly feed all the data from system ram into the graphics chip.
sony released some tools called "performance analyzers" that showed developes that pc-based concept of programming really failed on ps2. most code was using only one processor, in sub-optimal way.
ps3 probably follows similar design - they don't try to have similar architecture as pc, and if a skilled programmer can take advantage of that, he probably can squeeze impressive performance from ps3 (same goes for other platforms, too).
afaik the ps2 game developers really learned to do things "right" with ps2, somewhere after gran turismo was released. this game was a real eye-opener for lots of people. but the games that really started to make really good use of ps2 hardware came ~2005-2006, i think.
so, we could say that "true" ps3 games that will really utilize the ps3's potential will come out somewhere in 1-2 years. or maybe even later. i wonder how long will it take on other platforms.
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by Goregeist - 2009-02-26 |
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» RE: yoshi
I think you it the nail on the head there...
Besides it's not like 10-15 years ago with the Sega Genesis and the SNES where there was a Blatant Difference in Graphics.
Hell I remember the days where Content was more important than Graphics.
I think you it the nail on the head there...
Besides it's not like 10-15 years ago with the Sega Genesis and the SNES where there was a Blatant Difference in Graphics.
Hell I remember the days where Content was more important than Graphics.
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Re: schlachter - 2009-02-26 |
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» Idiots...
Did everyone miss the article on xbox-scene where the lead EE designer for IBM explained how he felt tainted, because as he said, they went straight to working on the 360's chip RIGHT AFTER they finished prototyping/designing the cell chip for sony. In fact the article stated how the dev centers for each processor was literally one floor above the other. And how he explained they used what they learned on the ps3 on the 360's chip. You all talk about writing games just for the ps3, but you fail to mention games that are made just for 360. Like Gears2, which looks just as good as msg4. I have both on a 1080p monitor, and don't see any difference in detail or quality. In fact, that's why Epic decided to back the 360, they said it was easier to program for, and was just, if not more powerful than a ps3. This was back when they were making UTIII port to each system from the PC version. While the pc will always have the best graphics, epic said they got the best results with their engine on the 360.
Everytime I read one of these articles I laughed. I've never once heard of a developer that's made a multiplatform game, or even a separate game on each system, say that the ps3 was more powerful or easier to program for than the 360.
Did everyone miss the article on xbox-scene where the lead EE designer for IBM explained how he felt tainted, because as he said, they went straight to working on the 360's chip RIGHT AFTER they finished prototyping/designing the cell chip for sony. In fact the article stated how the dev centers for each processor was literally one floor above the other. And how he explained they used what they learned on the ps3 on the 360's chip. You all talk about writing games just for the ps3, but you fail to mention games that are made just for 360. Like Gears2, which looks just as good as msg4. I have both on a 1080p monitor, and don't see any difference in detail or quality. In fact, that's why Epic decided to back the 360, they said it was easier to program for, and was just, if not more powerful than a ps3. This was back when they were making UTIII port to each system from the PC version. While the pc will always have the best graphics, epic said they got the best results with their engine on the 360.
Everytime I read one of these articles I laughed. I've never once heard of a developer that's made a multiplatform game, or even a separate game on each system, say that the ps3 was more powerful or easier to program for than the 360.
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by BRAV04 - 2009-02-27 |
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» Make it easy!!!
Listin idk how to make video games. its just after watching people make all this effort backing these systems but forgetting one thing..
if Ps3 is soo bad... why do i always play it??? and if its sooo bad why do all my friends play it...and my family?????
And if 360 is soo bad?? why do i find myself playing its just as long as ps3????
ahhhhhhhh ur trying to find a point.... my point is all the systems are good. wii ps3 and 360 thank you tee hee
Listin idk how to make video games. its just after watching people make all this effort backing these systems but forgetting one thing..
if Ps3 is soo bad... why do i always play it??? and if its sooo bad why do all my friends play it...and my family?????
And if 360 is soo bad?? why do i find myself playing its just as long as ps3????
ahhhhhhhh ur trying to find a point.... my point is all the systems are good. wii ps3 and 360 thank you tee hee
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by doubleA - 2009-02-27 |
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» WTF
Who the hell gets the idea to put news this on both ps3 and xbox360 QJ? Combined? We all know that sh*t like this is gonna happen between these 2 bloodthirsty gangs. They should at least seperate the comments, but i guess Isaac C. and the rest of the QJ staff are enjoying this. Every single time they do this.
Who the hell gets the idea to put news this on both ps3 and xbox360 QJ? Combined? We all know that sh*t like this is gonna happen between these 2 bloodthirsty gangs. They should at least seperate the comments, but i guess Isaac C. and the rest of the QJ staff are enjoying this. Every single time they do this.
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